I agree with practically everything stated here, including that SnS needs the buff more.
Dual blades’ problem is that it is high risk (long animation lock, short dodges) for low reward (minimal damage output even when playing perfectly).
2 Likes
Hmmm. From my experience with twins, the issue starts appearing once the monster have no easily accessible weakspot. So Diablos, radobaan, zinogre, pickle during rage and barroth specifically could be an issue. I don’t know specific values for slashing damage in this game (and we didn’t get breakdown in hunter journal either) but I feel like this is cumulating with something else to make it feel like twins are underperforming, while virtual breakdown on mhn quest puts them above LS
Number don’t usually mean much when experiencing the weapon goes all wrong.
DB can only be played to the best possible DPS when you have a party AND the monster is chasing someone else.
If you need to keep doding and small combo you lose.
1 Like
Came here just to state that using the 10 star leaderboard as a basis for analysis is worthless. Looking at 8 and 9☆ on the leaderboard, you can find plenty of runs where DB outdamage other weapons, notably SnS (which definitely require some buff). Simple example, 8☆ HAT Zinogre is 52s with DB and 59s with SnS.
Another important point here is that there simply aren’t a lot of high level DB player submitting their runs. Simply look at 9☆ Girros. Elementless it takes 51s VS 75s with element. Except elementless is weaker by 4% so how does the weakest weapon end up being better by a whopping 29s?!
Hence why you don’t see 10☆ kills currently with DB on the leaderboard: there aren’t any DB players willing to push that far currently. And I’m saying this as an SnS player who could definitely push towards 10☆ but chose not to cause why bother when I can already farm everything on 9☆ and I don’t want to see 10☆ fights on my map which I can’t defeat.
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So based on your analysis and absolutely 0 experience, DBs are fine we are complaining without any reasoning and the problem is that we, with thousands and thousands of runs, having maxed weapons aren’t playing as good as they we could, therefore not being to kill those who should been easy to kill, yea?
Did you stop to read the post and people’s comments? Insights? Reviews? Experiences?
I have literally other g10 weapons and they are more than enough to clear some 10 stars if not many of them already.
While DBs aren’t, unless you get lucky and play an almost frame perfect fight.
Let me also be very simple with you: the problem IS NOT only the 10 stars kill ability, this is one of the many problems the weapon have. But the flaw kit it has, the weird timing, the special with long animation and posing losing precious seconds, too many locks for going in and out of demon mode, dodging, range, combos, on and on.
I don’t expect you to understand, since it seems you have no experience whatsoever, only seen others and not so many, thinking it’s ok hahah
Try better; gets your hands dirty, try DB compare with Sns, kill a 8 stars using a g5.1 like Sns can, you will suffer I can almost garantee.
1 Like
Read again “using the 10 star leaderboard as a basis for analysis is worthless”
Am I saying anywhere DB are the greatest thing that have graced the earth and need no balancing at all, that they’re able to beat every single weapon and you’re just a bad worthless loser unable to play the game properly? Seems like it’s a nope.
And I’ve read the other criticisms which are interesting and valid (and rally some most SnS players have, like reach and special who might impact your positioning, though SnS can add the fact that you can miss your hits due to the monster moving mid combo or partbreak while at least DB special glues you to the monster no matter what happens)
I just said the part of your analysis going “look at the leaderboard, no 10☆ kill” is bad. I think you already know there’s at least a 10☆ Pukei kill not on the leaderboard at the moment. And once again look at the 9☆ kills and please do explain to me, since you’re oh so experimented, how an elementless build beats a better element build by a whopping 29s. I mean, yeah I’m no DB expert so I may be missing some intricacies of the weapon that make elementless better than element despite every single math saying the opposite.
Might also add regarding the leaderboard criticism, that most of the runs are submitted by one person, skyhigh, solidifying the fact that DB speedruns currently lack representation in the community. And there’s a chance skyhigh is in the same boots as me: why bother unlocking 10☆ when I already know I won’t be able to kill a lot of them and the rest will be nightmare fuel watching the clock all fight long for a 75s kill? Already seeing an immortal 9☆ BBlos on the map is frustrating enough
Btw, while I do have 5 10-5 SnS, I also have 9-5 Diablos DB and am currently building every single weapon for fun purpose (read 9-5 Odo LBG, Pukei Lance, and at lower lvl BBlos bow, PRath LS, Girros hammer, Rado GS and elemental CB) so sorry, I do actually have first hand experience too (albeit a little limited I can admit). Want an example? DB lack vertical reach meaning as soon as Kulu pulls the rock, fun’s over. And I won’t do a 8☆ monster with a 5-1 DB simply cause I already won’t do it with a SnS. But aren’t you the one who just shared a 7☆ Rathian with r3 DB?
And while you’re complaining for a DB balancing, SnS players are complaining since pretty much release and got… A guard nerf so far.
1 Like
Sns can boost their DPS while playing better and with different combos.
Both weapons are weak, Db is simply worse.
LS or Black Diablo Bow for the win
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Kek. Meta master 9000 inb4 getting dunked by the nerf hammer, 2024 colourised. The tears tasting like cactus will flow
Back to the topic at hand, getting broader weapon experience shown me that alot of weapons has their moveset severely lacking due to semi random trimming process as well as lackluster control scheme of certain weapons (which is wild considering it’s like, 1 button)
I’m fairly certain that implementing broader moveset as well as implementing low and high tap (akin to lance) for both sns and twins would greatly mitigate this
That said I’m still willing to die on the hill called “twins ain’t bad”
1 Like
提案/Suggestion
Dual Blade shines on short fights but suffers on long fights such as the new Dragon Interceptions. This is due to the stamina bar it has to keep demon mode active which unlocks its powerful combos compared to the combo’s it has when not in demon mode.
My suggestion is either bring back the demon gauge where when full is it can do weaker attacks of demon mode outside of demon mode but not as weak as the normal combos
or
Make it so that whenever we do perfect evade and it does its arial attack, the stamina gauge should stop consuming since the attack during a perfect dodge really takes time almost consuming 1/4 of the stamina. I think that is a good reward for taking a risk to do perfect dodge in demon mode as we all know demon mode’s evade has a smaller iFrame window compared to normal dodge rolls. Gives more value to the risk it takes to do perfect dodge during demon mode.
現状/Current Status
Dual Blade is weak in long fights.
1 Like
現在、SPエネルギーが満タンになった場合でも、鬼人化を主動的に解除できないことがよくあります。これにより解除のタイミングが判断しにくく、ダメージを受けることがあります。そのため、他の解除方法を追加してほしいと思います。
2 Likes
別に強化しろと言っているわけではないんです
チャアクではできるのになぜ双剣はダメなのですか？
そうできない正当な理由があるなら説明してください
5 Likes
双剣を使用中に鬼人化すると回避と共に攻撃ができるようになりますが、その代わりとしてジャスト回避以外の回避判定が消滅してしまいます
この回避判定消失を撤廃してください。
鬼人化中の後ろ回避も回避距離が激減して弱体化しているので、一部モンスターの尻尾回転攻撃などが来ると、被弾する、極めて短いジャスト回避判定に賭ける、SPスキルでやり過ごすという選択を迫られます
SPスキルは格下のモンスターに使うものではないため、例えば低ランクのリオレイアなどと戦うと、尻尾攻撃を受ける事を強要されるため非常に不快です
仮にSPスキルでやり過ごしたとしても、SPスキルは乱発できるものではないため、その直後強いモンスターと出会った場合、SPゲージは空の状態から始めなければなりません
武器自体の火力も低く、SPスキル無しでは装備と同格のモンスターには太刀打ちできないので、回避が弱いと言う点が双剣全体の評価を下げています
是非双剣に十分な長さの回避判定を与えてください
そうでなければモーション値を2倍にしてください
1 Like
提案/Suggestion
双剣のリスクリターンを合わせるべく
・鬼頭化モーションを消す
・鬼神化中のステップ攻撃に回避を付与
・怯み中はゲージが減らない
・火力を上げる
などの調整を行ってほしい
現状/Current Status
・鬼神化の解除にスキができる上モーションも変わるのでゲージ管理や立ち回り管理がゲージのある太刀や自己判断でモーションの変わるチャアクの比では無いほど重要かつ難しい
・咆哮や風圧を被弾した際ゲージが枯渇すると鬼神化解除モーションも発生し、他武器ではスワイプ連打でジャスト回避になるところが、双剣では被弾する
・鬼神化すると回避はジャスト回避かSP以外の回避方法がバクステになり、その間もゲージは減りステップ時間も無駄になるためDPSがかなり落ちる。遠距離であれば双剣と同様攻撃は継続するが、遠距離はジャスト回避の必要がない。双剣はマイナスを消すためのジャスト回避でしかなく、ハイリスクローリターンすぎる
・タップ攻撃、SPともにリーチが短く立ち回りの難度がかなり高い
など、双剣は全武器の中でも立ち回り難度が圧倒的に高い武器だと感じていますが、それに見合った火力を持っていない様に感じます。G8-5付近まで強化すれば星6の尻尾を切る武器として活躍するので、その用途のみに絞って使っていますが、そこまで強化すれば他武器でも同じことをするのにさほど苦労するわけではないので満足できていません。
6 Likes
提案/Suggestion
双剣は被弾リスクが高く、その割にハイリスクローリターン。それに見合う攻撃力、攻撃スキル、SP等の追加もしくは修正要望。もしくは攻撃範囲が超接近戦の為、回避距離UPが最初から➕1〜2付与されるとか、特に鬼人化中は、鬼人化になった最初の出だし移動時と逆方向への切返し時に(モーション的に仕方ないのかもしれませんが)その場足踏みのような動きで被弾しやすい。双剣が好きで使っていますので半分、愚痴のようなものですが、運営に少しでも声が届けば嬉しいかな。ちなみにHR172
3 Likes
同意見です。リスクに対して攻撃力の補正が適正でないと感じます。鬼神化の威力を増やすか回避しやすくするか鬼神化チャージの時間の短縮を希望します。
2 Likes
今後の対策や修正を切に期待したいですね
双剣は回復薬が大変です
(当然でもありますが)特に鬼人化中は被弾リスクが高いので、例えば、SPボタンと鬼人化モード切替ボタンを別にして(SPゲージが100%だと意図しないSP発生もある)、通常回避ができるとか、まだまだ工夫ができると思います、鬼人化になる最初の腕を上げて双剣をクロスするモーションもなんとかもっと時間短縮ならないか？とも思いますが
もう少し鬼人化中の回避、移動モーションを
より良いものにご検討運営さんお願いします
3 Likes
提案/Suggestion
・鬼人化中の左右フリックを連斬撤廃で左右フリック鬼人回避に変更(他武器と回避性能を同格に)
・鬼人化中、画面連打乱舞も回避を挟めるモーションを増やす
-現状防御を捨ててるほどの火力がありません。
-逆に上記が難しいとなると単純にダメージUPや鬼人ゲージの調整が必要。
・鬼人解除ボタンの追加
-言わずもがな
・SPアタックヒット時の着地点の改善
-現状真っ直ぐですがカーブを描くような着地軌道に変更
現状/Current Status
片手剣を除く他武器に劣る。
双剣と片手剣を他武器と同格に。
5 Likes
鬼人化解除は切に欲しいですね…長押しに何のアクションもないので長押しにアサインでいいと思うし過去にそういうリクエストも出てたのに、なぜ頑なに実装されないのでしょうか。。。
4 Likes
みなさんが挙げているもの以外では、状態異常武器の導入をお願いします。
パオウルムー亜種のイベントについての公式のお知らせを拝見しましたが、状態異常にて浮遊をキャンセルできるとのこと。
状態異常武器が導入されていない双剣でどうやって戦えばいいのやら…
ぜひ導入よろしくお願いします！
3 Likes